Amendment 1 - Lamps and light sources for road vehicles - Dimensional, electrical and luminous requirements

Amendement 1 - Lampes et sources lumineuses pour véhicules routiers - Exigences dimensionnelles, électriques et lumineuses

General Information

Status
Published
Publication Date
07-Nov-2023
Current Stage
PPUB - Publication issued
Start Date
08-Nov-2023
Completion Date
08-Dec-2023
Ref Project

Relations

Standard
IEC 60809:2021/AMD1:2023 - Amendment 1 - Lamps and light sources for road vehicles - Dimensional, electrical and luminous requirements Released:8. 11. 2023
English and French language
29 pages
sale 15% off
Preview
sale 15% off
Preview

Standards Content (Sample)


IEC 60809 ®
Edition 4.0 2023-11
INTERNATIONAL
STANDARD
NORME
INTERNATIONALE
colour
inside
AMENDMENT 1
AMENDEMENT 1
Lamps and light sources for road vehicles – Dimensional, electrical and
luminous requirements
Lampes et sources lumineuses pour véhicules routiers – Exigences
dimensionnelles, électriques et lumineuses

IEC 60809:2021-04/AMD1:2023-11(en-fr)

All rights reserved. Unless otherwise specified, no part of this publication may be reproduced or utilized in any form
or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying and microfilm, without permission in writing from
either IEC or IEC's member National Committee in the country of the requester. If you have any questions about IEC
copyright or have an enquiry about obtaining additional rights to this publication, please contact the address below or
your local IEC member National Committee for further information.

Droits de reproduction réservés. Sauf indication contraire, aucune partie de cette publication ne peut être reproduite ni
utilisée sous quelque forme que ce soit et par aucun procédé, électronique ou mécanique, y compris la photocopie et
les microfilms, sans l'accord écrit de l'IEC ou du Comité national de l'IEC du pays du demandeur. Si vous avez des
questions sur le copyright de l'IEC ou si vous désirez obtenir des droits supplémentaires sur cette publication, utilisez
les coordonnées ci-après ou contactez le Comité national de l'IEC de votre pays de résidence.

IEC Secretariat Tel.: +41 22 919 02 11
3, rue de Varembé info@iec.ch
CH-1211 Geneva 20 www.iec.ch
Switzerland
About the IEC
The International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) is the leading global organization that prepares and publishes
International Standards for all electrical, electronic and related technologies.

About IEC publications
The technical content of IEC publications is kept under constant review by the IEC. Please make sure that you have the
latest edition, a corrigendum or an amendment might have been published.

IEC publications search - webstore.iec.ch/advsearchform IEC Products & Services Portal - products.iec.ch
The advanced search enables to find IEC publications by a Discover our powerful search engine and read freely all the
variety of criteria (reference number, text, technical publications previews. With a subscription you will always have
committee, …). It also gives information on projects, replaced access to up to date content tailored to your needs.
and withdrawn publications.
Electropedia - www.electropedia.org
IEC Just Published - webstore.iec.ch/justpublished
The world's leading online dictionary on electrotechnology,
Stay up to date on all new IEC publications. Just Published
containing more than 22 300 terminological entries in English
details all new publications released. Available online and once
and French, with equivalent terms in 19 additional languages.
a month by email.
Also known as the International Electrotechnical Vocabulary

(IEV) online.
IEC Customer Service Centre - webstore.iec.ch/csc
If you wish to give us your feedback on this publication or need
further assistance, please contact the Customer Service
Centre: sales@iec.ch.
A propos de l'IEC
La Commission Electrotechnique Internationale (IEC) est la première organisation mondiale qui élabore et publie des
Normes internationales pour tout ce qui a trait à l'électricité, à l'électronique et aux technologies apparentées.

A propos des publications IEC
Le contenu technique des publications IEC est constamment revu. Veuillez vous assurer que vous possédez l’édition la
plus récente, un corrigendum ou amendement peut avoir été publié.

Recherche de publications IEC - IEC Products & Services Portal - products.iec.ch
webstore.iec.ch/advsearchform Découvrez notre puissant moteur de recherche et consultez
La recherche avancée permet de trouver des publications IEC gratuitement tous les aperçus des publications. Avec un
en utilisant différents critères (numéro de référence, texte, abonnement, vous aurez toujours accès à un contenu à jour
comité d’études, …). Elle donne aussi des informations sur les adapté à vos besoins.
projets et les publications remplacées ou retirées.

Electropedia - www.electropedia.org
IEC Just Published - webstore.iec.ch/justpublished
Le premier dictionnaire d'électrotechnologie en ligne au monde,
Restez informé sur les nouvelles publications IEC. Just
avec plus de 22 300 articles terminologiques en anglais et en
Published détaille les nouvelles publications parues.
français, ainsi que les termes équivalents dans 19 langues
Disponible en ligne et une fois par mois par email.
additionnelles. Egalement appelé Vocabulaire

Electrotechnique International (IEV) en ligne.
Service Clients - webstore.iec.ch/csc
Si vous désirez nous donner des commentaires sur cette
publication ou si vous avez des questions contactez-nous:
sales@iec.ch.
IEC 60809 ®
Edition 4.0 2023-11
INTERNATIONAL
STANDARD
NORME
INTERNATIONALE
colour
inside
AMENDMENT 1
AMENDEMENT 1
Lamps and light sources for road vehicles – Dimensional, electrical and

luminous requirements
Lampes et sources lumineuses pour véhicules routiers – Exigences

dimensionnelles, électriques et lumineuses

INTERNATIONAL
ELECTROTECHNICAL
COMMISSION
COMMISSION
ELECTROTECHNIQUE
INTERNATIONALE
ICS 29.140.20, 43.040.20 ISBN 978-2-8322-7760-7

– 2 – IEC 60809:2021/AMD1:2023
© IEC 2023
INTERNATIONAL ELECTROTECHNICAL COMMISSION
____________
LAMPS AND LIGHT SOURCES FOR ROAD VEHICLES –
DIMENSIONAL, ELECTRICAL AND LUMINOUS REQUIREMENTS

AMENDMENT 1
FOREWORD
1) The International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) is a worldwide organization for standardization comprising
all national electrotechnical committees (IEC National Committees). The object of IEC is to promote international
co-operation on all questions concerning standardization in the electrical and electronic fields. To this end and
in addition to other activities, IEC publishes International Standards, Technical Specifications, Technical Reports,
Publicly Available Specifications (PAS) and Guides (hereafter referred to as “IEC Publication(s)”). Their
preparation is entrusted to technical committees; any IEC National Committee interested in the subject dealt with
may participate in this preparatory work. International, governmental and non-governmental organizations liaising
with the IEC also participate in this preparation. IEC collaborates closely with the International Organization for
Standardization (ISO) in accordance with conditions determined by agreement between the two organizations.
2) The formal decisions or agreements of IEC on technical matters express, as nearly as possible, an international
consensus of opinion on the relevant subjects since each technical committee has representation from all
interested IEC National Committees.
3) IEC Publications have the form of recommendations for international use and are accepted by IEC National
Committees in that sense. While all reasonable efforts are made to ensure that the technical content of IEC
Publications is accurate, IEC cannot be held responsible for the way in which they are used or for any
misinterpretation by any end user.
4) In order to promote international uniformity, IEC National Committees undertake to apply IEC Publications
transparently to the maximum extent possible in their national and regional publications. Any divergence between
any IEC Publication and the corresponding national or regional publication shall be clearly indicated in the latter.
5) IEC itself does not provide any attestation of conformity. Independent certification bodies provide conformity
assessment services and, in some areas, access to IEC marks of conformity. IEC is not responsible for any
services carried out by independent certification bodies.
6) All users should ensure that they have the latest edition of this publication.
7) No liability shall attach to IEC or its directors, employees, servants or agents including individual experts and
members of its technical committees and IEC National Committees for any personal injury, property damage or
other damage of any nature whatsoever, whether direct or indirect, or for costs (including legal fees) and
expenses arising out of the publication, use of, or reliance upon, this IEC Publication or any other IEC
Publications.
8) Attention is drawn to the Normative references cited in this publication. Use of the referenced publications is
indispensable for the correct application of this publication.
9) IEC draws attention to the possibility that the implementation of this document may involve the use of (a)
patent(s). IEC takes no position concerning the evidence, validity or applicability of any claimed patent rights in
respect thereof. As of the date of publication of this document, IEC had not received notice of (a) patent(s), which
may be required to implement this document. However, implementers are cautioned that this may not represent
the latest information, which may be obtained from the patent database available at https://patents.iec.ch. IEC
shall not be held responsible for identifying any or all such patent rights.
Amendment 1 to IEC 60809:2021 has been prepared by subcommittee 34A: Electric light
sources, of IEC technical committee 34: Lighting.
The text of this Amendment is based on the following documents:
Draft Report on voting
34A/2370/FDIS 34A/2378/RVD
Full information on the voting for its approval can be found in the report on voting indicated in
the above table.
The language used for the development of this Amendment is English.

© IEC 2023
This document was drafted in accordance with ISO/IEC Directives, Part 2, and developed in
accordance with ISO/IEC Directives, Part 1 and ISO/IEC Directives, IEC Supplement, available
at www.iec.ch/members_experts/refdocs. The main document types developed by IEC are
described in greater detail at www.iec.ch/publications/.
The committee has decided that the contents of this document will remain unchanged until the
stability date indicated on the IEC website under webstore.iec.ch in the data related to the
specific document. At this date, the document will be
• reconfirmed,
• withdrawn, or
• revised.
IMPORTANT – The "colour inside" logo on the cover page of this document indicates
that it contains colours which are considered to be useful for the correct understanding
of its contents. Users should therefore print this document using a colour printer.

___________
2 Normative references
Replace the existing reference to IEC 60810 with the following:
IEC 60810:2017, Lamps, light sources and LED packages for road vehicles – Performance
requirements
IEC 60810:2017/AMD1:2019
IEC 60810:2017/AMD2:2022
Add the following new reference:
IEC 62707-1:2013, LED-binning – Part 1: General requirements and white colour grid intended
for automotive applications
IEC 62707-1:2013/AMD1:2018
3 Terms and definitions
Add, at the end of Clause 3, the following new terminological entries 3.19, 3.20 and 3.21:
3.19
matrix light source
MLS
LED light source consisting of a grid of individually operated pixels in two perpendicular
directions
Note 1 to entry: The grid consists of m pixels in direction x (row) and n pixels in direction y (column).
3.20
pitch p and pitch p
x y
nominal distance (centre-to-centre) in direction x respectively in direction y between adjacent
pixels in an MLS having a rectilinear grid pattern

– 4 – IEC 60809:2021/AMD1:2023
© IEC 2023
3.21
pixel
smallest element of a matrix light source that is capable of being operated individually
6.5 Lamp dimensions
5 5
Replace, in the second paragraph, "Lx5B ", with "Lx5B, Lx6A, Lx6B ,".
8.2 List of specific lamp types
Table 3
Replace the last four rows (Sheet no. in R.E.5: L3, LR4, L5 and L1/6) of the existing Table 3,
before footnotes "a" and "b", with the following new rows:
Table 3 – List of specific lamp types
b
Sheet no. in
a
IEC sheet no. Category Voltage Wattage Cap
R.E.5
V W
LR3A / LR3B 12 3 PGJ18,5d-1
- Lx3 LW3A / LW3B 12 4 PGJ18,5d-24
LY3A / LY3B 12 4 PGJ18,5d-15
- LR4 LR4A / LR4B 12 3 / 075 PGJ18,5t-5
LR5A / LR5B 12 3 PGJ18,5d-10
- Lx5 LW5A / LW5B 12 6 PGJ18,5d-28
LY5A / LY5B 12 6 PGJ18,5d-19
LR6A / LR6B 12 7 PGJ18,5d-33
- Lx6 LW6A / LW6B 12 7 PGJ18,5d-12
LY6A / LY6B 12 7 PGJ18,5d-7
- L1 L1A/6 / L1B/6 12 6 PGJ18,5d-29
- C5W/LED C5W/LEDK 12 2 SVX8.5
12 7 BAU15s-3(110°)
- PY21W/LED PY21W/LED
24 7 BAU15s-3(110°)
12 2 BA15s-3(110°)
- R5W/LED R5W/LED
24 2 BA15s-3(110°)
12 2 WX2.1x9.5d
W5W/LEDK
24 2 WX2.1x9.5d
- W5W/LED
12 2 WX2.1x9.5d
WY5W/LED
24 2 WX2.1x9.5d
12 18 PGJX19-2
- H11/LED H11/LED/6
24 18 PGJX19-2
- C5W_LEDr C5W (LEDr) 12 3 SV8.5
12 27 PGJ19-2
- H11_LEDr H11 (LEDr)
24 27 PGJ19-2
© IEC 2023
Add, at the end of the existing Clause 8, the following new Clause 9:
9 Requirements and test conditions for matrix light sources (MLSs)
9.1 General requirements
Matrix light sources shall be so designed as to be and to remain in good working order when in
normal use. They shall, moreover, exhibit no fault in design or manufacture.
This Clause 9 applies to matrix light sources with a Lambertian-like intensity distribution, i.e.
I(θ) ≈ I ⋅ cos(θ) (see 9.2.5.4).
Matrix light sources may consist of areas with different pitch p and pitch p , for example a
x y
central area with a smaller pitch p and outer areas with a larger pitch p .
x x
NOTE In the case of an MLS with areas of different pitch p and pitch p , it can be necessary to evaluate each area
x y
separately, and some deviations from the specified procedures can be necessary.
This Clause 9 is intended to be applied to matrix light sources with a number of pixels in the
order of one hundred or less.
9.2 Photometrical requirements and test conditions
9.2.1 Measurement methods
Appropriate measurement methods capable of dealing with the requirements of 9.2.4.2, 9.2.4.3,
9.2.5.2, 9.2.5.3, 9.2.5.4, 9.2.5.5, 9.2.5.6, 9.2.5.7 and 9.2.6.1 shall apply.
9.2.2 Reference system
The reference system for the (x, y) reference plane shall be specified in the manufacturer’s data
sheet. The (z) reference axis shall be normal to the (x, y) reference plane and intersect the
centre point of the grid.
9.2.3 Operating conditions
For testing purposes, one of the following operating conditions shall apply:
– pulsed operation, defined by
• pulse definition and measurement intervals according to IEC 62707-1:2013, and
IEC 62707-1:2013/AMD1:2018, 5.3;
• drive current I , according to the manufacturer’s data sheet;
f
• ambient temperature 23 °C ± 5 °C (see IEC 62707-1:2013, and
IEC 62707-1:2013/AMD1:2018, 5.2);
– steady state operation, defined by
• drive current I , according to the manufacturer’s data sheet;
f
• PWM duty cycle, according to the manufacturer’s data sheet;
• position of T -point, according to the manufacturer’s data sheet;
b
• stabilization temperature T (within ±3 °C) at the T -point, according to the
b b
manufacturer’s data sheet.
All measurements shall be performed under pulsed operation, unless otherwise specified in the
manufacturer’s data sheet.
– 6 – IEC 60809:2021/AMD1:2023
© IEC 2023
9.2.4 Parameters determined by all pixels
9.2.4.1 General
Subclause 9.2.4 covers parameters which are determined by the entirety of all pixels.
9.2.4.2 Partial luminous flux
The partial luminous flux Φ of an MLS is the luminous flux emitted into a cone of θ = 45°
cone
around the z axis according to:
θ=45° φ=2π
Φ = I sinθθ dd φ

cone
θ=0°= φ0
The partial luminous flux Φ shall comply with the limiting values given in the manufacturer’s
cone
data sheet.
9.2.4.3 Colour
The colour of an MLS is the colour of the light emitted into a cone of θ = 45° around the z axis.
The chromaticity coordinates shall comply with the limiting values given in the manufacturer’s
data sheet.
9.2.5 Parameters determined per pixel
9.2.5.1 General
Subclause 9.2.5 covers parameters which are determined for each pixel individually.
Measurements of pixel parameters are made along the z-axis of the MLS.
The minimum distance between the grid and the aperture of the measurement equipment shall
be 10-times the diameter of the smallest circle containing all pixels of the MLS.
9.2.5.2 Partial luminous flux
The partial luminous flux Φ of a single-pixel "i" is the luminous flux emitted by this single
cone,i
pixel into a cone of θ = 45° around the z axis according to:
θ=45° φ=2π
Φ = I sinθθ dd φ

cone,i i
θ=0°= φ0
for all pixels i = 1, …, (m · n).
The arithmetic average Φ of the partial luminous flux of all pixels is:
cone,ave
mn⋅
ΦΦ /(mn⋅ )
cone,ave ∑ cone,i
i=1
The relative deviation ΔΦ = | Φ − Φ | of each pixel shall comply with the
cone,i cone,i cone,ave
limiting value given in the manufacturer’s data sheet.
=
© IEC 2023
9.2.5.3 Colour
The colour of each pixel is the colour of the light emitted by this single pixel into a cone of
θ = 45° around the z axis. The chromaticity coordinates shall comply with the limiting values
given in the manufacturer’s data sheet.
9.2.5.4 Luminous intensity distribution
The deviation of the luminous intensity distribution I(θ) from a Lambertian distribution is tested
in the following directions:
– 0° (corresponding to the z-axis);
– ±22,5° and ±45° (in the x-z plane);
– ±22,5° and ±45° (in the y-z plane).
In each of these directions, the relative deviation characterized by the coefficient k
k = | I(θ) / (I(0°) · cosθ) −1 |
shall comply with the upper limit k given in the manufacturer’s data sheet, whereby k
max max
shall be 0,3 or less.
9.2.5.5 Luminance uniformity
The light emitting area (LEA) of a pixel is determined from the luminance measurements of an
area with dimensions pitch p and pitch p which contains the whole pixel. The value L is the
x y 98
th
98 percentile of all values of these luminance measurements.
The LEA of a pixel is the smallest circumferential rectangle having the same orientation as the
grid and containing all luminance measurements with a value of 20 % or more of the value L .
In case the luminance does not drop below 20 % of the value L in this area, the nominal size
of the pitch (p , p ) shall determine the LEA of a pixel.
x y
The value L is the arithmetic average of the values of all luminance measurements within
ave
the LEA.
The LEA is subdivided into nine subsections (three by three rectangles of equal size), see
Figure 1.
For each of the subsection (i = 1, …, 9) the value L is the arithmetic average of the values of
i
all luminance measurements in the corresponding subsection.
The value ΔL is the maximum relative deviation of all luminance values L from the luminance
i
value L .
ave
ΔL = Max { |(L − L )/L |; i = 1, …, 9}
i ave ave
The maximum relative deviation ΔL shall comply with the limiting values given in the
manufacturer’s data sheet.
– 8 – IEC 60809:2021/AMD1:2023
© IEC 2023
Figure 1 – Illustration of a grid of pixels with corresponding LEAs
and subsections of pixels under test
It is recommended to use a luminance camera with minimum 30 camera pixels for the smaller
and pitch p .
value of the pitch p
x y
9.2.5.6 Spatial colour uniformity
The LEA of a pixel and the subsections of the LEA shall be determined according to 9.2.5.5.
For each of the subsections (i = 1, …, 9) the chromaticity coordinates x and y shall be
i i
determined.
The spatial colour uniformity described by the values Δx and Δy according to
∆x = Max {x } − Min {x }; i = 1, …, 9
i i
∆y = Max {y } − Min {y }; i = 1, …, 9
i i
shall comply with the limiting values given in the manufacturer’s data sheet.
9.2.5.7 Gap width
The gap width shall be determined for all direct neighbour pixels in the x and y directions, while
(at least) the two neighbour pixels are switched on, see Figure 2.
The gap width in the x-direction is determined from the luminance profile L(x), averaging along
the y axis over a width of LEA/3, starting from the centre of the LEA of the "pixel under test"
with the nominal value of the pitch p .
x
The gap width in the y-direction is determined from the luminance profile L(y), averaging along
the x axis over a width of LEA/3, starting from the centre of the LEA of the "pixel under test"
with the nominal value of the pitch p .
y
© IEC 2023
The gap width is characterized by the parameters g50 and g90, which are determined at a
luminance level of 50 %, respectively 90 %, of the average luminance of the corresponding
luminance profiles (L(x) and L(y) respectively), see Figure 3. In case the luminance profile does
not drop below 50 % of the average, the g50 value is zero.
The gap widths g50 and g90 for all pairs of neighbour pixels shall comply with the limiting values
given in the manufacturer’s data sheet.

Figure 2 – Illustration of method to determine the gap width

Figure 3 – Example of gap width characterization (luminance profile)
It is recommended to use a luminance camera with minimum 30 camera pixels for the smaller
value of the pitch p and pitch p which is able to detect a luminance contrast ratio of at least
x y
200.
9.2.6 Characteristic parameters for luminance contrast behaviour
The luminance contrast shall be determined for each row and column separately, while the row,
respectively column under test is switched on and the neighbour row(s), respectively column(s)
are switched off.
– 10 – IEC 60809:2021/AMD1:2023
© IEC 2023
It is recommended to use a luminance camera with minimum 30 camera pixels for the smaller
value of the pitch p and pitch p which is able to detect a luminance contrast ratio of at least
x y
200.
Figure 4 shows the details for a certain column.
Figure 5 shows an example of the determination of the luminance contrast, based on the
measured luminance profile.
For each column, the luminance profile L(x) is calculated from the measured luminance data by
averaging all values along the y-axis (parallel to the columns), where:
– L is the maximum value of L(x);
max
– x and x are the positions where L(x) drops below 50 % of L ;
1 2 max
– L is the arithmetic average of all L(x) values between x and x ;
ave 1 2
– X is the distance between the position x respectively x and the position where the
N:1 1 2
luminance L(x) drops below L /N, where N is a positive integer given in the manufacturer’s
ave
data sheet;
– L is the value in the luminance profile L(x) at the distance p /2 from position x1 or x2 of
dx x
the column under test;
– X and X and optionally additionally L /L shall comply with the limiting values
100:1 200:1 ave dx
given in the manufacturer’s data sheet.
For each row, the luminance profile L(y) is calculated from the measured luminance data by
averaging all values along the x-axis (parallel to the row), where:
– L is the maximum value of L(y);
max
– y and y are the positions where L(y) drops below 50 % of L ;
1 2 max
– L is the arithmetic average of all L(y) between y and y ;
ave 1 2
– Y is the distance between the position y respectively y and the position where the
N:1 1 2
luminance L(y) drops below L /N, where N is a positive integer given in the manufacturer’s
ave
data sheet;
– L is the value in the luminance profile L(y) at the distance p /2 from position y1 or y2 of
dy y
the row under test.
– Y and Y and optionally additionally L /L shall comply with the limiting values
100:1 200:1 ave dy
given in the manufacturer’s data sheet.

© IEC 2023
Figure 4 – Illustration of method to determine the luminance contrast for a column

Figure 5 – Example of luminance contrast determination (luminance profile)

– 12 – IEC 60809:2021/AMD1:2023
© IEC 2023
Annex I
Table I.1
Replace, within the existing Table I.1, the two tables with the headers "Automative lamps for
headlights and/or fog lamps" and "Lamps for signal lights", excluding the table with the header
"Bicycle lamps", which remains unchanged, with the following new tables:
Table I.1 – Overview of lamp types and their applications
Automotive lamps for headlights and/or fog lamps
LED
Filament Discharge
light
lamps lamps
sources
Double filament Single filament
Data Data Data Data Data Data
Cars Motorcycles Cars Motorcycles
sheet sheet sheet sheet sheet sheet

and and and and
in in in in in in
trucks mopeds trucks mopeds
R.E.5 R.E.5 R.E.5 R.E.5 R.E.5 R.E.5
H4 H4 S2 S1/S2 H1 H1 HS2 HS2 D1S DxS L1A/6
L1
H13 / HS1 HS1 H3 H3 D2S DxS L1B/6
H13
H13A HS5 HS5 H7 H7 D3S DxS
a
H15 H15 H17 H17 H8 / H8B H8 D4S DxS

H19 H19  H9 / H9B H9 D1R DxR
H10 H10 D2R DxR
c
H11 /
H11 D3R DxR
H11B
H12 H12 D4R DxR
H16 /
H16 D5S D5S
H16B
b
PSX26W D8S D8S
PSX26W
HB3 HB3 D8R D8R
HB4 HB4 D9S D9S
H27W H27W
HIR2 HIR2
b
PSX24W P24W
H18 H18
H20 H20
© IEC 2023
Lamps for signal lights
Filaments lamps LED light sources
Double filament Single filament
Data sheet Data sheet Data sheet

in R.E.5 in R.E.5 in R.E.5
P21/4W P21/4W WY16W W16W LR1 LR1
P21/5W P21/5W W21W W21W LW2 LW2
...

Questions, Comments and Discussion

Ask us and Technical Secretary will try to provide an answer. You can facilitate discussion about the standard in here.

Loading comments...